Monday, March 11, 2013

A hat tip to Peter Beinart, An answer to Mondofront... and anti-Zionists

What more can anyone really want? Well at least if they want controversy that is.

The Progressive Zionist gives a huge hat tip to Peter Beinart who absolutely skewered anti-Zionists in his strong piece; The Pro-Palestinian Left's Hamas Blindspot over at Open Zion:
This tolerance for certain brands of thuggery is an old story on the left. At its core is the belief that anyone who battles “imperialism” can’t be that bad. Fatah, which controls the West Bank, and Hamas, which controls Gaza, are both repressive. So why does Electronic Intifada direct so much more bile toward the former than the latter? Because Hamas is unequivocally hostile to Israel, the “imperialist” power, while Abbas and Israel are—from Electronic Intifada’s perspective—in cahoots. The yardstick, in other words, is not how a Palestinian group treats its own people but how it treats Israel. If it exhibits sufficient hatred of the Jewish state, Electronic Intifada overlooks its flaws. But if a Palestinian leader cooperates with Israel, Electronic Intifada amplifies his misdeeds because it sees the ultimate author of those misdeeds as Israel itself, the one and only true enemy of Palestinian human rights between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea. 
We’ve seen this before. In the 1930s, many in the old left excused Joseph Stalin because he opposed capitalism. In the 1960s, many in the New Left excused Fidel Castro and Ho Chi Minh because they battled American hegemony. Since the Cold War, some in the anti-globalization movement have excused Hugo Chavez for the same reason. In each case, the character of the people fighting Western imperialism didn’t really matter; what mattered was that they were waging the fight. Similarly, many on the global left overlook the misdeeds of Hamas, which is, after all, Palestine’s version of the religious right, not because it has the correct values but because it has the correct enemies.
Of course, being "drilled"  by Beinart did not sit well with the crew over at MondoFront (we call it MondoFront due to the fact that the articles and commentary mostly trade in anti-Semitic memes that are popular on the neo-Nazi site Stormfront, and Mondoweiss is quoted there freely), who sent Adam Horowitz and Seth Roth to write a "response". It is this response that I want to address.

The gist of the MondoFront rebuttal relies on a few things. The first is that they feel as Americans they should criticize Israel because Israel is a "client state" of the U.S. while Hamas is not. They go further to say that because they are Jews, they should be criticizing Israel and really not worry about Hamas. The problem with this argument is that it is a flat out lie.

Here Horowitz and Roth mantain:
We occasionally cover internal Palestinian politics, but it's not a focus of the site. If the U.S. government were funding Hamas we'd feel differently, and if there was a propaganda and lobbying effort in the U.S. to justify and promote oppressive Hamas practices we would cover it. But this isn't the case.
But this is not true. U.S.aid goes directly towards funding the Palestinian Authority government AND helping the Palestinian people who at this point in time (according to Polls would vote to put Hamas in charge of their government. Also, the U.S. is the single largest contributor to the United Nations and the U.N. spends a lot of money directly aiding Gaza. So while the U.S. does not directly fund Hamas, money that it donates to both the Palestinian People directly and in the form U.N. aid does fund Hamas.

The second part of that statement is a bold faced lie. There very much is a propaganda effort sustained in this nation to justify and promote Hamas' oppressive practices. Just look at any major leftist or hard rightist blog sites (when I say Hard Right I mean sites like The Daily Paul, Stormfront, davidduke.com and others). Article after article after article shows up condemning Israel for any slight infraction or supporting every outright lie about the nation. Yet when it comes to Palestinian infractions (or any Islamic country in the MENA, see Syria for example), nary a word is said. If that is not a propaganda effort then I am not sure what one is.

Another lie that the MondoFront owners and participants spread is that they and their neo-Nazi commentators (who post on "screened blog") don't just criticize with an eye towards "improving" Jewish or American policy, they comment under the guise of "human rights activists". They assume the mantle of protectors of human rights for all people. NOT just Palestinians.

But this argument is easily turned aside by the fact that not only do they not give a crap about how the Palestinians are actually treated by their own people or by neighboring Arab nations, they don't give a crap about the Jewish peoples legitimate rights to self-determination. They don't care one bit about the fact that the Hamas charter is rife with genocidal rhetoric. They don't care one bit that Hamas represents a theocratic hard right regime that would restrict the rights of women and would not tolerate the presence of minorities.

They criticize Beinart here:
We stand with and support Palestinians working to make Palestinians society more equitable, and have published pieces to this effect, but we don't see it as our place to dictate to Palestinians what their society should look like. We demand rights for the Palestinian people that they demand for themselves.
Well the Palestinian people support Hamas and their values. If they want to call themselves (or be taken seriously as) "Human Right's Activists" they should stand up for all human rights not just the cop out to what Beinart accurately portrays as anything that smacks of "anti-Western imperialism".

But more than this. As a Useful Idiot, Horowitz (and other apologists like David Harris Gershon) are completely blind to the fact that while "demanding the rights of the Palestinian People" they subject the Palestinian people to incredibly repressive forces. Not much "Human Rights" activism there now, is there.

BUT even more than that exactly what are the rights that the Palestinian People demand for themselves? I mean what they demanding when they actually vote for Hamas. Has Horowitz ever read the Hamas Covenant. where they demand all of the land from the Med. to the Jordan. Or where they demand the right to kill all of the Jews (which ironically would include Horowitz, Roth, and Harris Gershon)? Are those the rights they demand?

Where does that leave the rights of Jewish people? Apparently out in the cold. Of course, they don't feel they should dictate to the Palestinians how they should run their government, because they agree with the goals of the Palestinian polity (One State from the Med to the Jordan, sans Jews). But they do feel the right to demand how the Israeli people should run their government without any regard for Israeli democratic institutions.

Beinart is dead on in his Open Zion commentary in this case. I am not 100% with him on certain things (though I do respect the guy), but, his argument about anti-Zionist sites like Electronic Intifada and MondoFront  is dead on.

10 comments:

  1. sure it is. But here's my question: why is it that Beinart (appropriately) calls the hard left to task for overlooking Hamas' misogyny but not for overlooking Hamas' naked anti-Semitism? Hamas isn't just anti-women, anti-LGBT, anti-religious rights, anti-civil rights. All of which should be anathema to the left. But they are also old school anti-Semites.
    Perhaps PB felt that this was so obvious that it shouldn't need to be mentioned. But shouldn't this really be POINT ONE when accusing the far left of tolerating hatred?

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    1. Yes and no Dr. Mike. Hamas is obviously anti-Semitic. No one, even their apologists and useful idiot friends denies that. Actually, Beinart was very smart for NOT bringing that into the equation. It takes the focus off of his orientation as a Zionist or as someone writing from a "Jewish perspective" and brings the focus to what it should be, Hamas as a anti-human rights, theocratic, proto-fascist regime.

      Remember, who is Beinart's audience. They are not the folks on the Right. They are a liberal and progressive crowd. He writes with an eye towards that. ALSO, Beinart is a a person who is actually concerned with Human Rights for all people. You (or I) may not agree with all that he says, or for that matter much of what he says, but, I don't think that anyone can doubt his commitment to the subject.

      Unfortunately anti-Semitism is casually accepted across the political spectrum and when liberals and progressives talk about the Palestinian or Arab polities it is taken as a given. SO... in some ways accusing Hamas as anti-Semitic is met with a shrug. BUT, you destroy your opponents much more effectively when you show that what they support goes against ALL of their stated or supposed objectives.

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  2. Beinart offers a little realism, but his voice is faint. There are many others that have been saying this stuff for far longer. At least in this instance he is commended, rather than treated with contempt.

    But here is more about Beinart, who many argue has enabled those he criticizes today.

    http://www.standwithus.com/peterbeinart.asp

    Part of the reason the Left is pro-Palestinian is because that narrative is almost all it knows, is taught, and hears, infused with an underlying anti-Americanism. People not named Beinart that expose Jew hatred, of which Hamas is one example, the reality of these authoritarian actors and corresponding disconnect with human rights, are often not tolerated, but stigmatized.

    In the end, the Left loses because it becomes ignorant, even as it imagines it is more knowing than others.

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  3. (livosh1)
    Thanks for calling out attention to this, volley. The so-called "blind spot" toward Hamas is very revealing, indeed.

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    1. It is.

      Hamas AND Hizbollah are a "thorn" in the anti-Semitic, hard left's side. They expose their apologists and useful idiots for the tools they are, and those in the movement can't stand that. For all their talk about "Human Rights" and creating "Just societies", their lack of criticism or outright support for their goals shows that there really is ZERO interests in those more "noble" goals (Human and civil rights for all), and that really, all their desires are around destroying Israel and killing Jews.

      These people (like those on the Hard Right on our side) refuse to focus on "cleaning up their own house" and consistently are just "One message ponies". They don't care about the racism and bigotry of their side OR how that racism and bigotry manifests itself in real world politics. Those things don't matter to them.

      But when exposed to the light they do their best to deflect or create Meta to distract from the actual message. Look at Horowitz' response to Beinart over at 'the Front. There is nothing there that actually addresses what Beinart is saying, nothing. It is all meta instead of how Beinart is wrong and that his is a "Zionist" (Cue evil music).

      We see the same thing with the Hard Right. The focus is not on Beinart's message (as it should be) but with a series of half truths about who Peter Beinart is. All to simply detract from his message.

      I salute Beinart for this article and while there are things he says that I disagree with, at least he is consistent (as much as anyone can be) and for that I do respect him.

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    2. Why not just leave it at what Beinart said. He was talking about the Left, not the Right, and it is not necessary to make comparisons, some of which are suspect anyway.

      What does having a clean house have to do with it anyway? Talk about meta! More political correctness, which it seems is what you call for, will not make manifestations of racism and bigotry decrease. It will just make it seem that way.

      When it comes to matters affecting Zionism, Left and Right as descriptors lose efficacy. Jews across the spectrum have criticized Beinart, not with half truths, but substance.

      When your adversaries use someone as authority because of what is said, then perhaps what is said was not well thought out.

      The reaction to Beinart at Mondoweiss is just another example of how blasphemy is treated.

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    3. That's right... why not leave it at what Beinart said?

      But seems to me that a guy who did just the opposite of that in his comment should be pretty much the last person making this statement.

      Even in this comment, a comment that you say: "Why not leave it at what Beinart said", you then go on to say: "When it comes to matters affecting Zionism, Left and Right as descriptors lose efficacy. Jews across the spectrum have criticized Beinart, not with half truths, but substance."

      And in your comment you bring in a ton of meta around Beinart that is simply irrelevant to the discussion. I believe these are your exact words:

      "einart offers a little realism, but his voice is faint. There are many others that have been saying this stuff for far longer. At least in this instance he is commended, rather than treated with contempt.

      But here is more about Beinart, who many argue has enabled those he criticizes today.

      http://www.standwithus.com/peterbeinart.asp


      So you were saying?

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    4. If you want a pissing match, you can have it alone.

      I did not inject Left-Right. The spectrum I mentioned was among Jews, not Republicans and Democrats.

      I did not say that meta was improper, you did! I think it's appropriate to show that Beinart is not consistent to all, and that as he takes the Left to task as many have before him, he has also supplied them with ammunition, as the link shows, not with half truths, but substance.

      I addressed your arguments and made a comment about Beinart, a public figure, yet you now seem intent to make it about me. If I had written what he said, I suspect the response here would have been contempt, rather than praise.

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  4. Ummm I was not the one who (and I directly quote YOU) said:

    "Why not just leave it at what Beinart said".

    after a comment full of meta regarding Beinart - you do see the obvious irony here.. Do you not?

    And this is priceless:

    ....yet you now seem intent to make it about me. If I had written what he said, I suspect the response here would have been contempt, rather than praise.

    First of all, I didn't respond to you at all, I did respond to Dr. Mike and livosh two posters who directly addressed the content of the diary and didn't introduce meta. The only one making this about you is well..... you.

    The funny thing about this oldschool, is that you are behaving like a little child. This whole thing is "Oh no, these guys praised Beinart but no one listens to poor lil' ole' me". It's just ridiculous.

    The other reason that I support Beinart here is that PB is not a "one meme pony". He criticizes both the Israeli Right and Palestinian Right because he disagrees with both of them. I respect that. He doesn't generally overlook the bigotry on our side because it's inconvenient. In my mind, he is someone who I may disagree with, but I can respect where he is coming from.

    He doesn't seem to want to become his enemies. He thinks things can be solved without having to resort to their demonizations and bigotry.

    You on the other hand, have a simple focused agenda of "culture war" and you don't give a crap about what your side does. You claim to be for "liberal values" but, when those on your side go against those values, there is nary a peep. AND when there is a peep, it is barely substantial.

    Why would or should anyone respect you for that? You want to be treated with respect? Call out those on our side who violate your principles equally.

    You came in here with one purpose alone and that was to discredit what Beinart had to say. It didn't matter that what he said was something you might agree with, because he was Peter Beinart, you simply couldn't tolerate that people might actually see that he is not what you try to paint him as. You don't give a crap about the message you just care about discrediting the messenger. In effect, you are guilty of what you charge others of doing to you.

    Grow up oldschool - just grow up. You want respect? Earn it and just be honest with what you are about. You might actually get somewhere.

    Don't worry I know you won't follow this, and instead will go back to that cesspool that you post at and whine and bitch about us rather then actually take a look at why no one here respects a thing you say, and why other Rightist posters do actually get respectful answers as opposed to you.

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  5. Rebuttal Part 1

    OHOH.. looks like you got a bunch of stuff wrong Anon... I mean if you are going to criticize me... At least get your facts straight!

    You say:

    Apparently you don't know the difference between the PA and Hamas. It is illegal in the US to provide any financial aid to Hamas. And by your own admission, none of the aid from the UN goes to Hamas.

    Here is what I said:

    So while the U.S. does not directly fund Hamas, money that it donates to both the Palestinian People directly and in the form U.N. aid does fund Hamas.

    Are you saying that U.N. aid... WHICH THE U.S. Contributes a great deal too, does not go to Hamas or Gaza? Holy shit, you better tell all those aid workers in Gaza that they aren't really there. I think they will want to know. Particularly the folks in UNRWA. I think they are under the impression that they are in Gaza working to help the people there.

    Also, do you really, seriously believe that none of the millions of U.S. Aid filters down to Hamas through some unofficial back channels? If not, do you think I could sell you a bridge in Brooklyn. Hardly used. Really. I swear.

    The second part of that statement is a bold faced lie. There very much is a propaganda effort sustained in this nation to justify and promote Hamas' oppressive practices.

    No... just look at the efforts on the Hard Right and Hard Left. No one criticizes Hamas. No discussions on Hamas' oppression of their own people. Nothing. An Israeli farts and the Hard Right and Hard Left go nuts about Israelis trying to poison Palestinians with Methane... (snark), Hamas drags people through the streets on Motorbikes... Not. a. freakin. word. And every time something like that happens.... It's "Hey, look at what Israel does".. So you think that is not a sustained effort.. Really?

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