Monday, December 5, 2011

Berkeley 12/4/11 Debate Notes: Is the Obama Administration Good For Israel?

Last night I was fortunate to attend a debate panel discussion at Temple Nativot Shalom in Berkeley, between The Progressive Zionist's own volleyboy1 on one side, and Michael Lumish of Karmafish and Michael Harris of Stand With Us on the other, on the question "Is the Obama Administration Good For Israel?"

Volley has been a long-time supporter of President Obama and a progressive Zionist committed to the two-state solution. Both Lumish and Harris stated that they had voted for Obama in 2008, but were unsure now in the case of Harris or certainly opposed in the case of Lumish, and were both also in favor of the two-state solution.

The audience of around 40 people was mostly older, and seemed to contain a combination of hard-line - and perhaps hard right - Israel supporters - including one man who referred to the West Bank settlements as "outposts", as well as many individuals who displayed more of a sensibility that would be considered stereotypical of Berkeley. There did not appear to be any anti-Zionists.

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The centerpiece of the argument for, presented by Volley, were the statements from Israeli officials, especially current Defense Minister and former Prime Minster Ehud Barak, as well as prime minister Netanyahu, lauding Obama's commitment to and defense of Israel. It seems that Ehud's effusive comments, as cited by Volley, really do go beyond the perfunctory, and establish Obama as a true friend and defender of Israel, at least in the eyes of the Defense Minister.

It was also noted that Obama has increased US aid to Israel and supported the transfer of military hardware that was held up by the Bush Administration.

The argument against rested on three points: 1) That in making a settlement freeze a precondition for talks, Obama gave Abbas an easy 'out' to not participate, 2) That Obama has enabled the rise of Islamists in the wake of the Arab spring, and 3) that Obama has committed rhetorical lapses justifying the Palestinian narrative.

The second point is the one I take the most issue with. It seems that Lumish and Harris would have had Obama stick by Mubarak or even Gadhaffi. Such a move would have been disastrous IMO, as it was clear that Mubarak was almost universally loathed at home and would most certainly have fallen with or without US rhetorical support for the opposition. That would have likely put the US in an even worse position than now. So I don't think Obama can be faulted for what has happened in Egypt, or really in any other Arab country recently.

The third point is highly debatable. Volley pointed to quotes where Obama took the Palestinians to task for their rejectionism, while Lumish and Harris pointed to other statements, including some by other administration officials, such as when Secretary of State Clinton said that moderate Islamism was possible. I think that it is hard to establish a consistent pattern one way or the other.

The first above listed point is the one which I found to be the most intriguing and deserving of further thought. I believe this may indeed have been a blunder on Obama's part. However, the totality of his administration's actions are what need to ultimately be evaluated in order to answer the question.

Personally, I believe that the preponderance of the evidence shows that the Obama administration has been good for Israel on balance, although certainly not perfect.

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There were areas of agreement. All three debate panelists agreed that it would be extremely helpful, both in terms of putting pressure on Abbas and moving the conversation forward, if the Israeli government would put out a map of their proposed final borders.

Also, in a discussion afterward, I believe we managed to agree that the tactics of 'guilt by association' practiced around this issue were ridiculous and should be avoided, whether applied to Obama (e.g. Obama was friends with offensive person X) or applied to bloggers (e.g. anyone affiliated with blog Y is bad). People can be and very often are friends and debate partners with those with whom they completely disagree politically.

I found the complete lack of anti-Zionists in attendence refreshing, as I was concerned given the combination of the Berkely venue and their propensity to show up anywhere they are not wanted.

15 comments:

  1. Every president has made mistakes, particularly when it comes to their Middle East policy. Further, many of Obama's harshest critics when it comes to Israel call him the "worst president for Israel in American history." They ignore Eisenhower, who not went directly against Israel in the Suez Crisis, but also went directly against our allies Britain and France. They ignore Ford, who threatened then-Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin with a reassessment of relations if Israel did not do a partial pullout from the Sinai, years before Camp David. They ignore George H.W. Bush, who cut funding to Israel over settlements. There have been many worse than Obama. Furthermore, I believe it is clear that Obama is a true friend to Israel, one who wishes to see it continue as a Jewish AND Democratic state, and not one or the other.

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  2. Amazingly, all of the bad ones are Republicans... Imagine that (HEH)

    No wonder the Israel Sux Caucus likes Ron Paul or the other Republicans. LOL

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  3. While reasonable minds can disagree as to whether the precondition of a settlement freeze was an appropriate tactic in these circumstances, the fact remains that the settlements are an utter disaster for Israel, and pro-I folks of good conscience do not compromise their pro-I credentials one bit by vigorously opposing the settlements and their expansion.

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  4. I agree with that and disagree at the same time... (On one hand...). No seriously, I agree that a person's Pro-I creditentials are not hurt by opposing the settlements. In fact, they may even be improved as opposition is predicated on perserving a Jewish, and Democratic State.

    The only place I disagree is that in the zeal to oppose settlements if one makes them the only target of criticism and does not acknowledge the shortcomings of Israel's opponents. I think how that opposition is expressed is key.

    BUT on the face of it, I think you are right Anonymous....

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  5. The settlements are a reality. They exist and will, in all discussions to date, continue to exist as part of agreed upon land swaps. How can you oppose reality?

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  6. And the current settlements in Gaza and Sinai... Are they reality as well?

    So, if the settlements, all of them are permanent, why doesn't Israel just annex "Judea" and "Samaria" and get on with the One State solution?

    What do you propose for the Arab residents of this area? You realize what this does to the demographics of Israel, don't you?

    No one opposes reality, it is you who seem to be ignoring it.

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  8. Exactly Doodad... there are no settlements in Gaza or the Sinai. BUT... there were and they were removed.

    So much for reality.

    Some settlements will obviously be included in the Land Swaps but some will have to come down. That is reality, unless you are arguing for a One State Solution. Then by all means continue along the path you are espousing.

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  9. Sorry I was confused for a moment. So you agree that some settlements are a reality and will stay. Great!

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  10. Terrific discussion, VB.

    And we shall soon see about Michael's assertion of Israeli falafel superiority!

    :O)

    My first time in Israel is fast approaching!

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  11. Michael is right - Israeli falafel AND Hummus is far better than what we have here.

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  12. I might add that I have no problem with anyone opposing, in a raional manner, new settlements, relevant expansion etc. These can be sound moral positions and I can respect them. And yes, in that vein, there is no diminishing of one's Pro-I credentials.

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  13. Hmmmm . . . so Karmafish says he has never been to Israel before!

    What does that tell us about his commitment to Israel?

    And would he even bother to be a strong and vocal supporter of Israel if doing so didn't provide him with a platform for bashing Progressives, Arabs, and Muslims? Sure doesn't seem to be the case.

    Very interesting revelation, indeed.

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