The latest episode indicative of this trend happened at Nancy Pelosi's appearance at the Netroots Nation convention, where the Minority Leader was booed for daring to criticize Edward Snowden.
In addition to the booing, there was also apparently an extended heckling by a Netroots activist named Marc Perkel:
As she spoke about the need to "balance" privacy and security, Marc Perkel, a 57-year-old California blogger who's called for Obama's impeachment over the NSA revelations yelled out: "It’s not a balance! It’s not constitutional! No secret laws!" Perkel continued to decry "secret courts," and staffers began to escort him from the room.
As security guards were dragging Perkel away. "Leave him alone!" shouted others in the audience. "No secret courts!" yelled Perkel as he moved out of the room. "No secret laws!"
If you are guessing that I looked at this Perkel character and immediately found some insane, incoherent, conspiracy-laiden, basically far-right-wing views, then you have been paying attention to what has been happening to the Far Left end of American politics in recent years.
Perkel has two blogs where his views are out there for anyone to see. And, surprise surprise... well here's a sampling:
He's against gay marriage because it could lead to people marrying their pet.
He thinks that, on balance, American black people should be thankful for slavery.
And of course, where the Far Left and Far Right meet, such as in the deranged mind of Perkel, you find insane anti-Israel hatred.
So we basically have someone who spouts positions identical to the right-wing fringe of American political discourse being lauded by people on the left-wing fringe, after an outburst at a mainstream liberal. +1 for my merger thesis.
There will always be instances where lines cross, but to maintain there is a merger is going too far. The differences are so large one could drive a truck through the gap.
ReplyDeleteI will say, however, that the treatment received here does parallel some of the treatment received at right wing blogs, so in that respect your thesis is on point.
Not really, because this is not a Far Left site. This is a mainstream Democratic site.
DeleteBlogs are blogs, and people get treated, or perceive they are treated, in various ways. That doesn't indicate that any political movement is like any other political movement. Communists and Free Masons both like ice cream, but that doesn't say anything about their respective political movements.
On the other hand, I am offering examples of how, on political opinions, the Far Left and the Far Right are coming together.
Pretty much fiz...
DeleteWell said, and I have to back you up on this regarding the fact that the two, the Far/Hard Right and the Far Left are indeed merging.
Just look at Daily Kos where a strange mixture of Libertarians (Paulists), Naderites (Greens), and followers of the rather daffy Lyndon LaRouche, have all come together to trash the Democrats and Liberals in particular. I mean look at the NetRoots reception of Nancy Pelosi. Heck, she could have been addressing a conference of Republicans for the reception she received there.
Now, because this blog deals with Zionism.. something I saw today really struck me. That is, in a diary by psychodrew... the author was talking about America and Syria. And longtime poster BigAlinWashSt made the ZOG comment that "Israel, wagging the Dog"...
Here you have a respected poster on that site who champions all kinds of "progressive" policies making straight up ZOG comments that could have been made by any Rightists (Israel runs America) here: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/06/24/1218414/-Throwing-Away-Moral-Authority-US-Relations-with-Police-States.
I did not say anything about Far Left sites, however, but right and left wing sites.
DeleteAs to the way people are treated, a "mainstream Democratic site" should not contain the abusive comments regularly found here, and in particular what was offered yesterday, not to mention the arbitrary censorship. It parallels the very worst that some call out other sites for, both left and right. That no one here would even criticize it says a lot!
In any event, I think you are way too loose with your definitional terms and that there is no "coming together" of extreme elements, even if the lines may intersect on occasion.
Your ice cream analogy is a poor one because, as you concede, it has nothing to do with politics.
In my view, sharing a view or characteristic does change the fundamental character of what an extreme group stands for. Trying to make them come together with ambiguous classifications loses sight of how different their agendas may actually be.
Look at the Tea Party that distrusts too much government and some of the "Progressives" that say we are now a police state. Because there is a similar ring to their claims, does that mean they are "coming together" politically? Or will they more likely turn against one another as soon as opportunity presents?
Antisemitism and other forms of bigotry are not just practiced by extremists either. Why not just tackle the hate as it is because, in reality, these theories go nowhere in terms of finding resolutions on the ground.
Volley: Wow, I looked at that comment. You are right that the "Netroots" have become a combo of Paulites, Greens, and LaRouchites. Terrible.
DeleteOldschool: I think you are missing the point here. They are coming together politically because their political positions are becoming similar. If the Far Left stops caring about gay rights and the Far Right stops caring about Christianity, then they are even more politically similar, given that they both embrace isolationism and any manifestation of American power or governmental operation.
oldschool:
DeleteI did not say anything about Far Left sites, however, but right and left wing sites.
You may not have but this post IS about the Far Left merging with the Far Right - which it is doing as we can in multiple ways (as fizziks demonstrates), no one is talking about Mainstream Right or Mainstream Left merging.
How about this for an idea? Why don't you actually address the topic presented rather than the one in your own imagination. Because really no one wants to hear what is in your imagination, we just want discussion on the topic presented.
Oh yeah, and stop acting like a whiny little bitch. If you don't like how you are treated here.. feel free to leave at any point. No one is asking you or really wants you posting here.
And just FYI, you are not liked here (despite your imagination of challenge), because you obviously lie about your political affiliations. Look at Zion Truth. His ideas are absolutely reprehensible... BUT.. he stays on topic, he avoids preachy little insults, and he is honest about what he is. I don't like what he says and on both micro and macro levels completely disagree with him (well not on the macro level of supporting Israel and believing in Zionism), but, that said - he is honest. He doesn't hide his stuff.
If you just admitted you were a Conservative Republican, no one would care, but no, you just can't seem to admit your affiliation. Well that and you don't read what people write, rather you just spew patented ECI / EDL responses to everything rather than simply address the issue.
But I am not worried that you will actually read this because I know you won't, BUT, others will read it and when they see your nonsensical answers... even your most staunch allies will realize that you are just a fucking windbag who likes to see himself write.
Very well said fiz...
DeleteI look at DKos and it is crazy to me that any mainstream liberals or Dems. even associate with that place. It has been overrun by the Far Left.
I participate in a few Pro-Israel sites on Facebook and they are becoming overrun by the Far Right. People fight back against them but these folks just sit around and lie all day - they are no different than their far-left counterparts at DKos or FDL (which basically DKos is becoming).
What is funny is that the Far Left and the Far Right are both starting to make the same points (as you indicate above). And yes I think this is particularly true:
If the Far Left stops caring about gay rights and the Far Right stops caring about Christianity, then they are even more politically similar, given that they both embrace isolationism and any manifestation of American power or governmental operation.
And they are together in aspects that you describe.
Sorry oldschool - I see that you just can't help yourself.
DeleteBecause you choose you respond without reading posts and because you are continually trying to go off topic, I am sorry but I have to delete this post as well.
As I have told you in the past (and if you bothered to read those posts) you would know that I have said that I will leave your posts up as long as they are ON-TOPIC and RELEVANT, and are insult free.
So as I said, Grow up and stop whining. When you think you can do that and are willing to approach the diaries under the rules that I have established for my site.. then while you are still not welcome, your posts at least won't be deleted.
If on the other hand you can't do that, then by all means keep posting and I will keep deleting. It really isn't that hard.
'Bye now... and don't let the door hit you on the way out.
And poof another oldschool comment deleted.
DeleteOh well, that was easy.
Whoops... and there goes another.
Deleteoldschool, you are not the "brightest bulb on the ole tree" now are you?
IF you bothered to read above what I told you about posting here you would do that IF you really were interested, but since you can't do that...
POOF! There goes another one.
Well, it's been a while since any prominent, mainstream Democrats have used DK as a forum. They've pretty much fled to saner ground. They were remarkably absent during the last election, and I doubt any will be around in the upcoming election. They know that at best, the site is irrelevant to the outcome of elections, and at worst, participation there just gives idiot rightwingers like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh ammunition to use against Democrats.
DeleteI'm guessing the main reason Pelosi was at Netroots was because it was in her backyard. Indeed, I wonder whether she stumbled in by accident, when her calendar called for her to be at a fundraiser held by some 26-year old dot com billionaire.
Ha! Good one.,,,
DeleteThat site is fast copying the odious FireDogLake and like FDL it is just a matter of time before it becomes completely irrelevant. It will take a while but with idiots like The Troubadour (who was at the top of the rec. list today), and crew... they should manage to do it with increasing speed.
I would also agree with you that at best the site is irrelevant and really most likely would have cause a negative reflection of whoever they may endorse.
The merger already took place many, many years ago. We're just now seeing new groups of people gravitating towards each other because of that merger. Thankfully, at least within our own party, the fringe is marginalized.
ReplyDeleteI would further point out that I'm disturbed by the increasing libertarian bent by those on the supposed left, including the belief that the government should simply abandon the concept of effective national defense. As someone who self-identifies as liberal I also believe in a strong national defense capable of meeting threats anywhere in the world. I also believe that government does need the proper tools to combat and prevent terrorism. I further believe that it is the very concept of law and order, that we are a nation governed by men and women and ruled by law, that allows us to most effectively secure our liberty. Of course, by some of those that self-identify as far-left that makes me a reactionary tyrant.
Yes, that issue with defense is another trend I have noticed. Both the Far Left and Far Right now take as a given that the United States faces no real military or terrorist threats, and that anything that we may feel in that regard is entirely imaginary. If they think that less fringe-y people are listening, they won't say imaginary but they will say of our own making.
DeleteWhile the Far Left has mostly always been opposed to US military competence of any sort (i.e. Chomsky's opposition to intervening to stop the genocide in Bosnia), this is rather new for the Far Right.
I remember one particularly egregious case where I was interacting with someone that would have opposed going to war with Japan on 12/8/41. I found that absolutely nuts.
DeleteWhoa! That's insane.
DeleteThere's also the "We shouldn't have fought the Civil War" people like Ron Paul.
Good points by both of you. As I stated in fiz' other diary.. it seems like BOTH sides are looking for a return to the old Confederate States of America. I say this because I think the Far Left is increasingly bonding to the Libertarian theoretical ideas of a Paulist nature.
DeleteBTW, on Paul... he also said we should not have fought WWII. So... there is that.
Same idiot that opposed US entry on 12/8 also thought we shouldn't have fought the Civil War. It was good old BigAl and you were involved in the thread, fizz.
DeleteUgh, I must have blocked it out.
DeleteHeh... I am surprised that he didn't blame it on Israel there (even though Israel didn't exist).
DeleteReuven... Can you find that thread so that we can see it in all of it's true glory?
DeletePartially hidden, so you won't be able to see all of it :-(
ReplyDeletehere
UGH... What a mess... How did I post there for so long? What was I thinking?
DeleteHoly shit, in that same diary there is another "US should have stayed out of WW2" comment, complete with the "FDR let Pearl Harbor happen" conspiracy theory:
Deletehttp://www.dailykos.com/comments/1045027/44257976#c186
Ugh again....
DeleteSo on the Maddow Blog, in a discussion about the Voting Rights Act some guy just called the President a "Neo-Fascist Spokesmodel". What the hell is wrong with people?
ReplyDeleteOn some pro-Israel facebook groups I belong to, some people wonder at how we Americans aren't up in arm because they think he President isn't an American.
Things are polarizing quickly.
what i find very important is that pro-israel realists are forming alliances with some conservative groups, as the radical left follows the likes of Noam Chomsky and Alice Walker, the reality-based people know that we must form alliances across the board with our more conservative friends to combat this. for example, aipac and the Concerned Woman of America. http://caffeinatedthoughts.com/2013/07/aipac-reaches-out-to-iowa-evangelicals/
ReplyDeleteDamn. No updates in four and a half months? Well, defending the indefensible is hard, and I can't blame you for taking a break. *kiss kiss*
ReplyDeletePoor little Celtic Merlin. He hasn't gotten his slaps from Jon lately, so he's decided to get his slaps from me...
DeleteIs that what you call a slap? Well, you've certainly impressed me, my dear Jay. No, I'm not Celtic Merlin. I'm just very amused at how this all turned out. Keep up the good work! *kiss kiss*
Delete